God renigues on his sacrifice

The whole god sacrificing his son thing is truly the most obvious glitch in Christian logic. But ok, quirky eccentric god has his own weird rules to fulfil - fair 'nuff, and I'd sort of respect his 'incredible' sacrifice in a way, seeing as though he's cornered by his whole sacrificing scheme he'd set up with animals and turtledoves and shit... EXCEPT that he gave up after THREE DAYS!

Three days after the sacrifice he thought 'Frak it, i'm reanimating my boy'. Screw this sacrifice thing. Sure, he had victory over death but isn't that a cop out of universal proportions? He could resurrect the body but not heal the holes in his hand?

He renigued on the deal and then had the gall to call it a victory. Remember the Isaac story? In that story Isaac was going to do it, and without the three day reniguing chicken out. Isaac had balls, but this God/Jesus con-job is NOT a sacrifice. Just a torture and temporary death deal.


nekouken said...

You're thinking, and that's good, but Christians have an answer for that one. Jesus was sinless, and so for someone without any sin on his (or His) soul, a moment of sin is worth an eternity for anyone else.

Don't bother arguing logic when metaphysics are on the table.

snakey said...

I don't know why everyone gets their balls so up tight about this question.....(or any biblical contradiction)............the whole thing is whacky bullshit.

but...if I was inventing a 'god' - a character in a book such as the bible....I too would let loose and use it how I wished. Stiff shit if it doesn't add up ...I'm the 'author' - take it or leave it.

(I guess that's how come the bibile has been re- written so many times)...Haha

mothpete said...

God had a bad weekend for our sins. funny.

Jason McGibbon said...

I know that quoting scripture with someone who has chosen not to beleive can be a futile and fruitless endeavour (you obviously don't beleive or trust it so why should you care what it says:))at times but just for interest sake:

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

It is funny that as I look at your observations questioning scripture, I am left reflecting that it has once again proved trustworthy.

mothpete said...

Ahh yes, Paul's letter to the Corinthians... but lest we forget what a brahmin once asked The Buddha:

"Are you a God?"
"No, brahmin" said The Blessed One.
"Are you a saint?"
"No, brahmin" said The Blessed One.
"Are you a magician?"
"No, brahmin" said The Blessed One.
"What are you then?"
"I am awake."

All these old ancient writings of various religions have so many wise sayings... but at least Buddha has less stupid ones.

Jason McGibbon said...

Once again I can only say,
"foolishness (or stupid to use your word)to those who are..."

mothpete said...

Once again, I can only reply...

"I am awake"

By all means, keep returning and calling me an idiot for not taking your book to heart. I'm awake now and won't jump to that Jehovah jive talk anymore.

But if tit for tat is your game perhaps you should read more Buddha? Every religion has some good old fool vs wise concepts.

"The fool who thinks he is a fool is for that very reason a wise man;
But the fool who thinks he is a wise man is rightly called a fool."

- Dhammapada 63

Jason McGibbon said...

I don't think that the scripture I quoted, and I can certainly say that it was not my intent, to call you foolish or an idiot.
The scripture rather pointed out that the message of the cross is what seems foolish to many in the world. It would certainly seem from your blog that you would agree with that point.
Please don't hear me calling anyone, especialy yourself, foolish or an idiot.
As for Buddha, I have read quite a bit. There is certainly a lot of wise sayings. As for enough substance to hang my life upon, I found it coming up short.

mothpete said...

- God made the supreme sacrifice by having his 33 year old son return home to live with him -

The original argument I hastily and crudely put forward was that the 'sacrifice' seems to be an over-exaggeration and that many humans have made such sacrifices, knowing that they 'wouldn't' come back from the grave in three days.

I don't see Jesus as conquering death as a difficult thing when you consider that he is a 'god'. He'd already proven that with the Lazarus trick.

And sure, as far as books of ancient writ go, the bible has its fair share of decent ethical stands to hang your hat on. But the fundamental message that He had to make a halfbreed form of himself to sacrifice to himself to die for three days so that he could appease the offending nature of the people whom he created, with that nature, in the first place... I could never get a pastor to explain that to me in any way that made sense in all my 30 years of churching.

Whereas I used to shrug and go with it, nowadays I think it's just funny that people believe it so whole-heartedly.

Jason McGibbon said...

"I could never get a pastor to explain that to me in any way that made sense in all my 30 years of churching."

Are you asking (no sacrcasm or smugness intended but just an honest question)?

Anonymous said...

As defined by Webster, the word “sacrifice” has multiple meanings.

an act of offering to a deity something precious; especially : the killing of a victim on an altar
something offered in sacrifice
destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else b: something given up or lost
Given these definitions, I can hardly call the crucification of Jesus a “sacrifice” for several reasons. First of all, there is the age old adage of “God sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself for a mistake that he made.” A superior being (omnipotent, in fact) that MUST require a sacrifice in order to forgive is a bit odd, yet does not negate the term “sacrifice.”

The main reason I cannot deem this a sacrifice is for the simple, yet complex, reason that there was no (for lack of a better word) sacrifice. If you are a Christian, your whole belief is wrapped around the concept that this world is temporary and your bodies are but shells. The real “life” is the soul, which cannot be killed. The soul is thought of as immortal, no matter the destination. You will either rejoice forevermore with your Saviour or languish in the eternal bowels of hell (which is either a place simply void of God’s presence, so much for omnipresence, or a place of fire, brimstone, wailing and gnashing of teeth). So, while Jesus may have been crucified, he still lives on. Where is the sacrifice in that?

In fact, one could actually view this as a homecoming rather than a death. After all, God was separated from his Son some 33 years due to Jesus’ incarceration by a fleshly body. It was only after the shackles of his mortal shell were loosened that he was able to return to his Sky Daddy.

“But TJM, don’t you think that the act of God sending his Son to suffer on the cross is sacrifice enough?” No, not really. Let’s face it, Jesus took the coward’s way out. He willingly gave up his spirit. Is crucification cruel? You bet your ass it is. However, Jesus did not experience the half of it. You know, the agonizing part where you slowly suffocate after they break your legs so you can no longer hold yourself up… Did Jesus suffer? If the NT Account are true, sure he did. But no more than anyone else, and less than others.

snakey said...

Oh goody ...! another boring debate about an execution (alledged) of a 'son of god'..(alledged)

Don't worry about definitions either...any 'sacrifice' made or not made is also 'alledged'

as are the xian ideas of the soul ..all 36000ooooish of them.

But...please consider this...(haha)
what kind of 'god' would use people - ordinary soldiers paid by their governement to do his/her dirty work and dispence/torchure a humanbeing this way...?


Haha..yeah right - the similarity to current events..and political/historical events are amazingly close would'nt you say?

Of course you would...!

End of story.



not quite...
the martydom complex becomes a human virus, to not only the religious zealot but also sold to Soldiers and their Mums...& little kiddies in the West at Easter time.

Jason McGibbon said...

I don't mean to seem unthoughtful or dismissive, but all these arguments, as steeped in wit and sarcasm as they are, just bring me back to my first thought:

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

All the atempts to poke holes in what scripture says, ironically for me, only goes to prove its insight and trustworthiness.

mothpete said...

Dude, we heard you the first time eh? Repeating the same line ad-nauseum might ring true to your mantra-loving Christian mind but it makes for pathetically boring debate or discussion. We atheists think you guys are pretty foolish too - nothing new there - and we can quote lots of human authors to 'prove' this point - ironic eh? Back to your christian pop culture toy blog buddy, your continual repitition isn't wanted. The conceited christian sitting at his pc calling everyone outside his worldview fools isn't making the christianity we left ages ago any more attractive (oops, no, you're not calling anyone a fool, your book is... sheesh...)

Jason McGibbon said...

I readily concede that I am not much of a debator anymore, I suppose it is a little boring for those who are. Thanks for the brief back and forth, it has been informative.

mothpete said...

Sure, thanks for reading.

snakey said...

About PCD who said ..."All the atempts to poke holes in what scripture says, ironically for me, only goes to prove its insight and trustworthiness."

Isn't that the weirdest xian/human phenomenom?
That " hiding head deep in sand" routine.

I guess the guy likes it - enjoys whatever he is getting out of his religion and it doesn't make any difference if christianity - the bible is illogical/fucked up/or manic.

Anytime anywhere the ego is being stroked nice and hard as any quoted bible verse seem to do - its very difficult to throw anyone off their own beat.

The verse quotes come in handy don't they...its an entirely vicious insult you can throw while still remaining polite as apple pie.